I have some time today so I wanted to write about this.
So I make a lot of extra cash by being a pet sitter. I have cared for dogs, cats, horses, rats, birds, snakes, goats, ducks, and more that I can not think of at the moment. Last week I was at a friends house, she is a horse woman and an avid Parrelli fan. She is great about never pushing her beliefs onto anyone at the barn, but mentioned that since I was going to be at her house I might as well take a look at some of the DVD’s she has. She said that if I did Parelli Gennyral might be easier for other people to handle. He is currently in one of his “I only like my mom” moods which is driving everyone who is around him or wants to touch him nuts. He isn’t kicking at them or anything, he just makes faces and is a bit harder to handle if you are not me. He is a saint when I am involved, he just doesn’t want anyone else but me around him at the moment. He gets like this sometimes. As his owner I find it adorable, but I can see why others might not find it as cute. Anyway she left me the Parrelli Horsinality DVD and the level 1 case.
I had a HUGE test last Saturday, so I spent most of the week studying. I didn’t even work at the farm last week. Since I was so busy I didn’t get to watch or read a lot of the stuff so I didn’t get very far. I made it through the Horsinality DVD and the first part of 2 DVD’s of level one.
I am not going to stand here and say that I love or hate natural horsemanship. I will tell you that it is not my thing, but I have seen it in action and working. Watching Monty Roberts work is amazing to me, and while I am in awe of it, I know that it is not the type training that I personally believe in. I am sure people are going, “well you have seen it work so you should believe”, but the truth of the matter is that I have seen a lot of different methods work. I pick and choose the elements of things that I practice, and somethings I just do because I think it is a good idea at the time. Some of my invented training works, some doesn’t.
I tried round penning Gennyral once under the guidance of a staunch natural horseman, but my horse already saw me as the leader and didn’t understand why I was making him run around. I guess I didn’t really either.
I am not saying that I would never use natural horsemanship. But for the two horses I am working with right now it just isn’t the right fit. Gennyral was highly insecure when I first started working with him and I did things my own way to gain his trust. Luckily it worked.
Now back to Parelli. I really enjoyed the Horsinality DVD. It talks about horses personalities and natural tendencies and then gives you a fun chart to fill out. Gennyral and X are both left-brain thinkers. I loved that the words used to describe the two categories of left brain thinkers were words I have personally used to describe each horse. To me that part really fit. It was an interesting DVD with an interesting concept. The problem I have is that this lesson meant nothing unless you were willing to start going to level one to train the horse.
I am not saying that the idea’s of Parelli are wrong, but there are a few things that worry me about the message. I am an experienced horse person. I have been riding for many years and working in barns along the way. I would say that I know more than some and less than others when it comes to horses. Knowing what I know I still got the very distinct feeling by watching the Parelli method that I could train every horse. That there is no such thing as a mean horse, or a dangerous one. Every horse can and should be fixed. Now to some extent I agree to that because Gennyral was labeled as dangerous and was about to be sent to the meat packers to save him from causing harm to someone else. That being said I still do think that there are dangerous horses out there. Gennyral did send people to the hospital, but not out of spite. He just got stressed out and overwhelmed. I have seen horses who were just mean. They wanted to hurt people. And I am sorry Pat and Linda Parelli, but I don’t want to see some new horse person purchase that type of horse because it is cheep and trying to save it because you tell them that they can fix anything. I truly hope that no one has been hurt because of there belief in the Parelli method. I know better and I still got the impression I could do and fix anything with Parelli. A very dangerous idea for beginners to hold.
My other issue is that we are not all Pat Parrelli’s. I think that some people just have it in them naturally to really be able to speak to horses. I don’t believe that Joe Smo from Wallywassa, Oregon can do everything that Pat Parrelli can do, even with a lot of training. Now some people have the gift, but that is exactly what it is. A gift.
Now my real problem with Parelli comes in the form of dollar signs. They come off trying to tell us all that what they really want is for all horses to be happy. For some odd reason though that happiness comes at a price…a very large one to boot. I have no clue how much my friend spent on all of her Parelli stuff but I will just give you an example.
All of this equipment is required just at the very start of level one. A halter $31.05, 35.65 carrot stick, savy string 19.49, rope 45.94, and the level 1 DVDs for $249.95 dollars. That might not even be all of the dollar signs because I only got part way through the second DVD. For those of you who cannot do mental math (myself included) that is $382.08. Just to start at level one. And if you are serious about it you must also join the savy club at a mear $20 a month. And they also offer merchandise including saddle pads, shirts, hats, and more. And I just found that they are now making saddles! Because a normal saddle just isn’t good enough for a horse that is trained in the Parrelli way.
It is a shame because I do think that some neat ideas are in there. The problem is that I am so disgusted with there commercialism and there need to profit though that I know I wouldn’t ever want to purchase any educational items from them. If you really want to help people why are your prices so out of control? A rope halter in stateline tack is only $18. And that is not even the least expensive one that the offer.
Parelli is not all bad. In fact that it has inspired me to start doing stuffy with Gennyral again is priceless. And when it is done right it looks like it can be a very powerful tool for people to use. Let me say it very clearly before people get mad at me and start writing me mean comments. I am now knocking the Parelli program. It looks interesting and I am sure it had merit or so many people wouldn’t believe in it (I hope). I am just expressing concerns that people might be purchasing horses that are too much for them in the hopes to fix it and the price that is involved is ridiculous to me. If you want to make money that is fine, but be honest and forthright about it. Say that your products are the best if you want to, just don’t say that they are the only things that can work and if you don’t get them you cannot train your horse. A rope halter that fits well is a rope halter that fits well, regardless of the price.
I am sure I will go back and watch more next time I pet sit, which I am excited about. I love to learn new things and the method is interesting, but give me a break and be a little bit more realistic and honest about your program.
I was introduced to Parelli a few years ago when I started riding and pet sitting for some friends who are really into it. I like it, but I’m not over the top about it. There are some cool things you can do with the horses who’ve been trained in it, especially once you get in the saddle and the horse can do sidepass and turns on the forehand or haunches. I’d never trained a horse to do those things, so using the Parelli basics I feel like I can now. Of course, like you, I’m already a pretty experienced horsewoman. I feel like I understand Parelli because of my experience, not in spite of it. I like the Parelli methods, but I like to draw the line. Parelli and Natural Horsemanship is all fine and dandy, but I’ve discovered that I use the same kinds of principles anyway without using those branded terms or “games.”
I’m not personally going to go out and pay $250 for the DVDs. But I can also understand that the cost isn’t just in getting the knowledge, it’s also in the costs of production. It’s not cheap to do all the filming and editing and packaging that is involved.
I’ll support anything that trains a horse humanely and effectively. If it’s Parelli, great. If it’s not, then that’s great too. There are lots of methods that work, and as long as they are kind to the horse and take into consideration his needs and ways of going and learning … then fine by me.
I’ve never seen Parelli but have other well known names and like the message but like you am really bothered by the commercialism. I also get bothered by “this is the only way it will work.” Many say it’s just an option but really transmit it’s the only real way, if you know what I mean. It seems to me to be more about making money to some of them than always doing what is best for the horse. That part really turns me off.
The Parellis in particular seems to have almost a cult like following, Some of the things I have seen people do in the name of those games are down right dangerous with certain horses.
I use a combination of things to work with my horses. Things I’ve learned from the likes of John Lyons, Clinton Anderson and my friend, Harvey Jacobs and then my own experience and what my instincts tell me.
As a beginner horseperson I probably “bought into” the Pat Parelli thing because he IS so popular, commercialized and mass public. I have been an ambassador for one of his US tours and worked behind the scenes for him. He has stated that NOT ALL horses are trainable, only about 80%. I also have a horse that even my vet told me I shouldn’t have bought, that I would never ride, that was dangerous even for experienced horse people. I spent a year just working her on the ground using the Parelli method. Now I have graduated to riding her in walk and trot so far.
I haven’t used my carrot stick in months but can remember never going near her without it so I must credit the popularity of Parelli Natural Horsemanship for my initial training methods, but mostly for their support and how much I have learned about me in this process.
I just happened to read your blog and want to add my two cents for my 19 year old Percheron, Titan and myself. I was introduced to Parelli by my very generous best friend (who bought all the packages and shared the info w/me) after being a horse lover and self-taught backyard rider for most of my life. I have to say that I am grateful for the awareness that the system/concepts have given us (Titan and I). To look at things from the horse’s perspective has allowed me to have a relationship with Titan in a way that I had never ever expected. Did the Parelli games give me all the answers? No. Did they help me look farther into the relationship I have with my horse (and other humans)? Yes. Due to that connection, I’ve looked farther into myself to heal my heart on a deeper level and that makes me a better human.
I do have to say that despite the glossy packaging and their brilliant marketing to the masses, I am grateful to the Parelli’s for what has happened to Titan and I. I have gained effective tools and methods in communicating with Titan. The info has helped me with my curiosity and imagination in ways that I hadn’t anticipated. Nor had Titan. You should see him step up on a pedestal with confidence and willingness…all 1700 pounds of him….it’s awesome. I think what I’ve learned mostly is that there are LOTS of resources for horsemanship – so my hunger for info is constant. I expect it will be that way for the rest of my life…at least, I hope so. Titan does too. Peace Always…
I have seen about 2 dozen or so “Parelli” students and “trainers” without exception, they all could not controll their horses. Without exception, they all could not win a ribbon in a show ring if they were the only entrant.
I have seen several of Pat Parelli shows on RFD and to say I had to hold back my urge to hurl is an understatement.
His methods of presentation are insulting and aimed at people that should not own a horse,, and should buy a dog instead.
There is not substitue for gool old fashioned horsemanship as exibited by people like: Chris Cox, and Clinton Anderson.
To “play games” gives the completly wrong impression to people starting out. These are 1000 pound animals that can kill you in a second, and should be treated with respect, but controled in a humane manner, not treated as a family member.
Joe Yuu,
You are incorrect and by the look and feel of your post your dislike has become personal. In fact I would say you had an answer waiting for a question so you could launch an attack.
Let’s see:
“I have seen about 2 dozen or so “Parelli” students and “trainers” without exception, they all could not controll [sic] their horses.” Why do you start off with “Parelli” in quotes? There are Parelli students and there aren’t, but what are “Parelli” students? Perhaps they are the people who buy a rope halter and go it alone? If you really mean “Parelli” students then your comparison to Parelli students is false.
The same goes for “trainers”. On the Parelli web site the number of Parelli certified trainers are currently 44 in the USA. You have already seen 24 of them? Boy do you travel! In fact you must make it your profession going to PNH events to see that many trainers spread across the country.
Could not controll [sic] their horses? I have never witnessed this behavior, but then again I haven’t been to as many events as you have.
“Without exception, they all could not win a ribbon in a show ring if they were the only entrant. ” Clearly a childish insult. By the way “Without exception” and “all” are redundant. You also assume “all” want to be in a show ring. I found most PNH students find it much more rewarding to have excellent communications with their horses than in a ring.
“I have seen several of Pat Parelli shows on RFD and to say I had to hold back my urge to hurl is an understatement.” “Hurl” eh? Yet another pathetic and childish comment. If you didn’t like why did you watch several shows and why didn’t you just switch it off? Didn’t think of that or were you saving up to eager to sink your teeth into PNH and his students on web forums?
“His methods of presentation are insulting and aimed at people that should not own a horse,[sic],[sic] and should buy a dog instead. ” Pat Parelli is not selling “methods of presentation”. What was insulting and how could it be more so than your post on this forum? Since Pat clearly speaks to horse lovers and owners what would lead you to the conclusion that his audience, who you haven’t met, would be better of with a dog (of any type)?
“There is not [sic] substitue [sic] for gool [sic] old fashioned horsemanship as exibited [sic] by people like: Chris Cox,[sic] and Clinton Anderson.” What is “gool old fashioned horsemanship”? As far as I can tell that usually means whips, chains, tiedowns, bits and force. In the first few pages of Pat Parelli’s book and in the first few minutes of his first video he quite clearly states that he didn’t invent Natural Horsemanship. Pat learned it from his teachers, who he names. Pat said and says he packaged PNH in a manner that many can understand and learn it without having an instructor present. You might want to consider the fact that PNH has been translated into German and French (those are languages). Pat has taught students all over the world most of whom will never have access to PNH certified trainers.
“To “play games” gives the completly [sic] wrong impression to people starting out.” What impression do you think it gives then and why is it wrong? If you mean the 7 Games then you are wrong again. The 7 Games has a number of benefits. For example: basic communication so the horse and you understand how to move its body. Another benefit is establishing trust between horse and human. There are more.
“These are 1000 pound animals that can kill you in a second, and should be treated with respect, but controled [sic] in a humane manner, not treated as a family member.” A dog can also kill you in a second and so can a spider or snake and they all aren’t close to 1000 pounds. You didn’t elaborate on what you mean by “treated as a family member”. If not, why not? How should you treat a horse or for that matter a “family member”? Again you provide nothing but you tired old trash.
So, you took the time to make a post on this forum. Why? To simply vent your anger? I doubt it. It is more than that. I suspect you have a genuine fear and loathing of anything connected to PNH and so you lash out and attack. You gave no specifics and assumed that everyone shares your opinion and thus needs no supporting argument nor evidence. Sounds like you really believe you think you know what you are talking about. You want your belief to be reality. You have lost sight of the fact that what you want to be true is in fact not true no matter how badly you want it to be.
I can tell from your post that you are not much for thinking. Your type is the exact opposite from a successful PNH student. PNH students are taught to analyze their horses and act accordingly. You on the other hand have all the answers and will fit the situation, no matter what it takes, to come to the answer you want. You will never be a horseman no matter how long you live. Perhaps you should take you own advice and get a dog?
Hey Eric…just so you know this is a blog…not a forum for personal thoughts. I let the other commenter get his say and you can have yours as well. My thoughts on Parelli have not changed since I wrote that post in April of 2008. I do think it was rude of you to attack Joe personally. Your impassioned response to his comment just highlights the fact that you belive Parelli to be more then what it is. It is just a training method. There are lots of them out there. There is no reason to get upset because someone else doesn’t like the way you train your horse.
I don’t think it was rude of me at all. I wonder were I was rude? I did go point for point through Joe’s post and pointed out his errors and showed that he only wrote to cast insults and not to inform. Joe used such words as “hurl”, “”Parelli”", “”trainer”", “”could not win a ribbon if they were the only entrant”" etc. Joe’s post in your, sorry BLOG, was more than borderline offensive. Joe made NO references to other training methods except to throw out two names. Also his spelling and structure are so poor that he must have had a window seat at school. I made a rebuttal to his offensive comments, because his only goal was to be offensive. He presented no ideas of his own, but rather school yard abuse. I found it a rather disgusting display.
I also don’t have any problem with your opinions nor the way you expressed them I did not comment on your post/blog because you wrote WHY you had your opinion. Joe simply wrote that anyone who though PNH was okay made him sick . If you feel that PNH is just a training method and you want to leave it at that, that is up to you to decide. I believe there is more to PNH than it being a simple training methods. This, I believe, sets PNH apart from the rest. Training methods often concentrate on getting a horse to perform a certain maneuver. PNH goes much further into areas including horse and rider psychology.
Perhaps others like Joe’s style of argumentation? I don’t and I stated not only why, but also showed, in my opinion why. No, Joe’s post didn’t make me “hurl”.
Eric – I don’t think you are getting the fact that this is a blog…I am 100% positive that Joe Yuu who has annoyed you so greatly is not ever going to see your response. This is not a message board so people don’t check back on old posts usually.
There are alot of good trainers out there that are much,much cheaper then Parelli. Johnathan Field is excellent, Anderson and more.
Parelli is all about the money, go to someone that is all about the horses.
Well, I no know one will probably see this, but I just bought a mare that was “Parellied”. She had qualities I liked about her, and my vet checked her and felt her attitude was “good”. He also noted some issues with being ear-shy, and average manners. I rode her and she was very novice.
The previous owner only had her for a few months and decided she was one horse too many…The day I went to pick the mare up the woman bragged about Parelli stuff she did over the months she had her, and showed me how to “move” her around using one of the games. The mare kept laying her ears at the woman, who laughed, and said “oh my other mare does the same thing!” She bragged about how she stood in place while the horse circled around her. She showed me how to wiggle the lead to move the horse! As I loaded the mare she revealed she wasn’t able to catch her without effort. I bought the mare anyway. I got her home, and she was a nasty, pushy nightmare.
So four months with Parelli methods: Can’t catch, touch her ears, and she pins her ears.
I have worked many years with horses, shown horses, and worked with different breeds. I also attend clinics by various trainers and with various disciplines, just to see if there is anything of interest to learn…I believe many trainers and many ways can work. Repetition is key. Release is key. Consistency is key. But I concur with the post about dangerous Parelli horses. At the clinics I have attended, the horses with the biggest problems have Parelli owners. Now, I realize they may not be applying his techniques correctly, or perhaps they don’t work for that animal, but either way, these horses have been in people’s space, and pushy. That makes them dangerous. So if it isn’t Parelli’s methods, there is some missing link for many people…
Also, while some horses required more groundwork, I have a “cowboy” friend who get dangerous/hot horses going in a week, and rideable by others in a month. He isn’t cruel, doesn’t beat them, or other things the earlier posts accuse non-Parelli people of doing. He calmly teaches them to hobble, which teaches them to control their feet. This is in a confined situation, like a small round pen. Then, in riding, it is pressure and release, and teaching a horse to control his emotions. Horses are flight animals, and they learn to control themselves…most of their fears are fed from this flight instinct, but when they learn this self-control, things become less scary, if that makes sense. In fact, this trainer makes the horse work/think when he is afraid, gains control of the horses feet, and voila…the horse learns that scary thing wasn’t a big deal…eventually these horses aren’t phased by anything, and are ridden with a loose rein confidently through turkey, moose, deer, and bear country. They go on to be performance horses, show horses, and trail horses. I witnessed this time and again over six years. I learned a lot about how to relax when the horse isn’t, and how to not make a bigger deal of things to add fuel to a spook.
Anway..After working with this mare, round penning her, and establishing the “pecking” order with her, things are much better. She comes to me in a field with halter in hand. I have never used grain or a treat. She rarely pins her ears, and the rare instance when she does, I tell her to knock it off so she understands her thought needs to change and this challenge to me is unacceptable. I handle her ears easily. She moves from my space when I tell her to move…I don’t beat her, tie her head, etc. etc. etc. But I do make her move when I ask her…I am her heard leader.
Horses in a field will kick, bite, strike at each other. This is “natural”. I don’t want a horse to be “natural”. I want them to be safe, well mannered, move away from me when I ask, and find confidence in me because I am consistent and fair. It took 3 weeks to undo whatever messages she was given before. I really enjoy her and I she looks forward to getting to work.
All I have is a $12 rope halter and a $9 lunge whip (anything as an extention of the arm will work) (used as a tool, just like the big ball, special ropes, and carrot stick)…If you need all of these additional supplies, someone is fooling you…if you think they have a good message, take that with you…but save your money for a soft brush, and if you have money to burn, take off as many days from work as you would spend on any gimmicks and just spend them working with your horse…You will get the better results, faster!